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TOPIC: Sea Hornet help!

Re: Sea Hornet help! 5 years 2 days ago #29924

'Tis okay. Thanks, Mike
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Re: Sea Hornet help! 4 years 11 months ago #30084

I put in the revised airfiles from Rich. Ummm- well, a huge uncontrollable swing to port. Stopped, taxied back. Made sure both engines were responding to throttle- as they were during the run up. Yes, 2 following throttles, props set, tailwheel locked, or at least selected, stick back, brakes on 20 'hg to get her rolling.Brakes off. Bang,off into the weeds. As our Beagle notes- urrrf? Re loaded the files from scratch- same-same. Right into the weeds most rikki-tik. Brakes off at idle, slooowly advancing throttles. Blap. Tigers into the woods. Set realisim to minimum. Pow. same thing. Very odd.A system thing? or did I miss something?
Emachines something or another, Win7 64bit, FSX Accel, Nvida Gforce adequite card, max realisim except blowing up engines (not-well modeled- piston mechanics live by the boost gauge anyway)
love the Paints for the F.3! I've got a hankering for some Hornet paint ( Spartan!), once this Solomons ships business is cleared off.
The new fuel flow settings and shockwave lights set work a treat.
Cheers!
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Re: Sea Hornet help! 4 years 11 months ago #30085

p_factor_on_yaw = 0.0 //0.0 for max realism //with max realism set

=0 (with p-factor in realsim maxed)
=1 (p-factor in realism 0 or very low)

I found anyway . . Cheers, Mike
Last Edit: 4 years 11 months ago by birdmanmike.
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Re: Sea Hornet help! 4 years 11 months ago #30086

p_factor_on_yaw = 1.0 //0.0 for max realism

i.e. 0 for max realism p-factor high
1 only if max realsim p-factor 0 or very low

or a big brick on the pedals

Mike
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Re: Sea Hornet help! 4 years 11 months ago #30087

  • Keith Paine
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With Contra rotating props I would expect p factor on yaw to be zero with both engines at same output.
Keith
Upside Down In Cloud.....
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Re: Sea Hornet help! 4 years 11 months ago #30088

swelp me! and all that - I thought we'd kicked this to death. Pls read Rich's readme and you'll find he thinks realsim is c**p in FSX. I tend to agree. Either way, I have no idea how the .cfg settings actually interact with the FSX realism settings, but!

Rich's has
p_factor_on_yaw = 1.0 //0.0 for max realism

note 0 for max - as you say Keith. I think 0 should be correct, not wishing to contradict Rich. I fly with max realism on alli i.e. p-factor included, full right and therefore with
p_factor_on_yaw = 0.0

No problems. If you have p_factor_on_yaw = 1.0 then you have to set the p-factor in the realism settings down to 0 or almost. That also works for me but I have a nasty suspicion that if the .cfg is set to 1.0 it may override the realsim, depending on what the general realism is at. The individual realism settings certainly seem to override the general. So . . .

Try it different . .

Rgds, Mike
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Re: Sea Hornet help! 4 years 11 months ago #30089

  • Keith Paine
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I have a problem really - I've just downloaded Richs modifications & put it in the F3 folder & I cannot get more than 2500 RPM or above 100 kts........
Thats with FSX + SP2. I need 180 inHg, Turbocharger=1 in Robs original to get to 400 KIAS, so I still do not understand - possibly altzsheimers on my part?
Never mind I think best to let it rest & each use what they like best. Very annoying all the same when one cannot understand the problem.
Keith
Upside Down In Cloud.....
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Re: Sea Hornet help! 4 years 11 months ago #30092

With handed engines, there is no adverse yaw, torque or precession, so, yah, I'm flummoxed as well. I fly the sim with realism maxed out, except for engine damage, which I leave off. As noted, that is not well modeled. I've often found that the config and air files seem to be rather dependant on one's system, more so than than they should be, and some times require tuning.I saw some big changes after moving the sim on to the Win7 platform. Odd, but thats the way the electrons roll. The original air files 'feel' right- on my rig, to qualify that, where Rich was getting something quite different on his 'pooter.I have grafted in his new fuel flow figures, as the range seemed off, though now I can squeeze 2000+ NM out of the NF.21 , so an adjustment back up a pinch is in order. The revised files also gave smoother performance in pitch, with less tendency to nibble at the stall in vertical manoeuvre, but reduced the roll rate .The lesson here is , I suppose, one never knows exactly which way the magic smoke is going to break. No complaint! It is an area of interest to myself, vis a viz the old school hacker in me likes to know why the system does the things that it does. The other one that drives me, and many others batty, AICarriers. Computers with the same OS, FSX and Java installs, on one machine the programs runs on rails. On mine, it takes hours of reloading, massaging, blood sacrifice to Zoroaster ( who's fire we venerate...) to get the thing to work.Then you sneeze, and its gone again. Took out FSUIPC last time it went too. I had heard that Lamont Clark became so despondent and frustrated with trying to support it, and the hate mail, that he's hung up his yoke. Pity, that is. And at the end of the day, it is , after all, just a hobby and a game.
All that aside, I'm delighted with the Hornets, and all of the contributions of every one involved in this program, and; indeed, with a amazing community of bizarrely talented, if flagrantly Aerosexual, designers and painters and flight modelers pulling off stuff with quality and on time lines that most payware teams cannot come close to.
Large Cheers all around!
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Re: Sea Hornet help! 4 years 11 months ago #30093

  • Rich
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202 downloads and the only complaints are here !!

1.0 in the p_factor settings is a scalar used to read from the airfile changing it to 0.0 tells FSX not to read p_factor from the airfile, it does not turn the props into contra rotating.

Extracted from FSX explanation of aircraft.cfg files

Propeller-induced turning effect parameters
The p_factor_on_yaw, torque_on_roll, gyro_precession_on_pitch and

gyro_precession_on_yaw parameters are multipliers on the effects

induced by rotating propellers. These are often called “left turning

tendencies” for clockwise rotating propellers. The simulation correctly

handles counter-clockwise rotating propellers. The default values are

1.0.

p_factor_on_yaw See notes above. Douglas DC-3( p_factor_on_yaw = 0.5 )
Piper Cub( p_factor_on_yaw = 0.3 )

No mention of Max realism or what it does.

You use Max realism if you think it makes you a better pilot I refuse to use it as it messes up so much.

Wyvern and Gannet behave the same with wild left swings on take off, both contra rotating, max crap turned off = no swing.

In my little readme I asked that both my airfile and aircraft.cfg be used together I think some are trying to mix and match wit Robs.

Easy answer for any that are having problems is to delete my files and revert to the ones that came with the model.
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Re: Sea Hornet help! 4 years 11 months ago #30094

  • Rich
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Having just tested the Hornet airfile in FS 9 with realism turned fully up it has no swing problem with P_factor at 1.0, I know the Hornet model will not work in Fs9 the FD files were used on a different model.

Same results with AS freeware MB5 contra prop

Same results with FS Wyvern I still have the Fs9 Beta model to use FD on

Same results with Gannet FD on Ito Gannet,

Max realism in Fs 9 is a different kettle of fish to the half baked FSX version, remember FSX was released as beta 4 to catch Christmas sales that year and MS was up to its neck with Vista problems.

I am using the Beta 4 Release to manufacturer set that all beta testers received on release
Last Edit: 4 years 11 months ago by Rich.
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Re: Sea Hornet help! 4 years 11 months ago #30095

  • Rich
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3/7charlie, You seem to be using selected bit from my Fd on Robs FD


Range: F3 = 3,000 miles with external tanks.
F20 = 2500 miles with external tanks.
F21 = 1500 miles with external tanks.
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Re: Sea Hornet help! 4 years 11 months ago #30096

As indicated, the revised files were put in in their entirety, then trialed at all realism settings, from max to minimum. No mixing and matching- old files removed, new ones dropped in, from respectively marked folders to correct destination folders. ( Yes, I do read the readme file....) Dunno- and no complaints; either, but that was the observed result on the system I am running. I was poking through the files line by line- could not see what would be causing it. My thought is that its a system or OS thing with the machine I have. That's all it means. Dunno why, but that's part of the fun of FSX, anyway. It is just a bit odd, but its not the first, or the last time little gremlins like this crop up. Its like writing code , running it through the compiler, and then you cross your fingers and hope it does what you want. 99% of the time, one must de-bug it several times, as unanticipated and unexpected thing happen in the compiler pass. Besides, I usually mess about a bit with with most config and air files. Fine tuning for the OS/hardware combination.Had to do a ton of that running FSX on a sony laptop due to hardware and graphics set up. Just as 2 different pilots can drive the same aeroplane, and one will have nary a gripe, and the other will turn in a HongKong phonebook weight of grumbles, and the only thing that's changed is the pilot ( the operating system) There was no implied criticism. Simply what I observed on my machine/ install /OS combination, which simply led me to wonder aloud. And, no, max realism does not make one a better (?) (sim) pilot(?), in fact, I am much better at mid or lowest settings, as I tend to dig rather a lot of virtual smoking holes at maximum settings. It is just more challenging with the sliders up. My own thought on that debate is that FSX can help with procedures, but with out the inner ear being tossed about, sounds, smells, vibrations, acceleration/ deceleration/ G/centrifugal forces and the way the machine speaks to you through the yoke and pedals and pedestal , with out the certainty that one really is breaking the law of gravity and committing a death- defying act, one is only driving a cartoon on a monitor. But a sim is the only way I would ever land an aeroplane on a boat, or make a knife edge pass under the Sydney Harbour bridge!
And now, perhaps I should just shut my big mouf.
Cheers.
Last Edit: 4 years 11 months ago by 3/7charlie.
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Re: Sea Hornet help! 4 years 11 months ago #30097

  • Keith Paine
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I read somewhere recently that p factor on yaw is only applied with the tail wheel down, once up in level flight attitude it disappears! I have proven that with my Proctors!
The other peculiar thing I have found is when using an old .cfg file for a new model & then modifying it for the new one ( it doesn't seem to matter if I use Jerry Beckwiths FDW program or not) & I have found that in level flight the aircraft will continously yaw to the left when for torque reasons it should do the opposite.
Sometimes this can be due to fuel burn if one is using fuel from one side, but I have found that by using a .cfg file from another a/c that does not exhibit the tendency then its OK.
The other thing I have noticed: do not copy & paste items from a 'bad' .cfg into your new one, somehow the
'bad genes' carry over, which doesn't carry over if one enters the data by keyboard.....Wierd or not?
As for XP vs W7 differences in FSX, no I have so far not found that; there are differences however between FS9 & FSX for the same a/c ( my a/c are designed for FS9), mainly in performance & pitch trimming - faster & less trim changes required in FSX.
I guess we are just going to have to live with the differences - it is after all a leisure pastime........is it not?:evil:
Keith
Upside Down In Cloud.....
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Re: Sea Hornet help! 4 years 11 months ago #30098

Right on Keith, p-factor is largely due to angle of attack. I found also the yaw stopped as soon as the plane levelled while still on runway even when I had it. I'm just enjoying what works on my setup I'm glad you said leisure pastime - I thought at first you'd said its only a game! I'd have had to have come in with all guns/cannon firing.
Best all, Mike

PS as in using yours Rich, I'm very grateful!

PPS perhaps I should add that I started this thread because I'd got Rob's great plane but was having power problems - on my setup. Rich's .air and .cfg
solved that - and incidentally gave me a much greater understanding of how it all works. And it works for me. Thanks to them and all for the help.

I'm going to try and not reply any more on this thread - don't want to get blamed!
Last Edit: 4 years 11 months ago by birdmanmike. Reason: further afterthought
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Re: Sea Hornet help! 4 years 11 months ago #30099

Bingo. Its an MSFS code thing. I would have thought if one writes p-factor out, its gone. And yet, say on the Wyvern, there is still a noticeable swing on take off. Bad genes. There are, after all, no actual physics at work here, just code shoving the sim about according to a data set , hopefully ( crosses fingers) in the way intended. For the computer geek in me, half the fun of MSFS - and 90% of the frustration!- is deciphering what the system is doing and why. A typical little 'what the heck'- Dino's new F-35 (its... OK) on my rig, wobbles and oscillates and jitters sitting on the ground. Apparently, only on my computer! Solvable, I'm certain, though I am not really enamoured of the type enough to plow through the files and fix it right now. Perhaps in the depths of winter.
An enjoyable ( very) hobby. To whit; I think its time to crank up the thing in the basement, and drive a Sea Hornet under the Eiffel Tower at full honk. Who was the bloke that pulled that one off in a spitfire in '45?
Thanks for helping me wrap my head around that little gremlin, Keith.
Cheers all!
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