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TOPIC: Backward mixture control on Austers

Backward mixture control on Austers 4 years 11 months ago #29812

I love David Molyneux's (I apologise if I spelled that wrong) Austers. But why, oh why is the mixture control back to front and is there a way to make it work the right way 'round?

I learned to fly in an Auster J2 and owned an Auster J5F, I have friends that owned other variants, including the prototype J8 (I think it was the J8 - it was wrecked some years ago - sad) and all of these aircraft had the mixture control pushed in for full rich and pulled out for full lean - just like Cessnas, Pipers, Spitfires and every other prop aircraft I've flown.

I think this error mars a set of, otherwise, brilliantly crafted FS aircraft.

Oh, and why do the aircraft bounce when one tries to taxi? The Auster is one of the few aircraft certified to land in paddocks or fields and handles rough terrain very well.
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Re: Backward mixture control on Austers 4 years 11 months ago #29813

  • Keith Paine
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As for the mixture control - it just shows how many of us Beta testers stuggled to get to an altitude where we needed to lean out a bit!!! Should also have read my Association of British Aero Clubs Pilots notes more thoroughly too.....Although I cannot remember that far back if when they were converted to Gipsy Majors (making an Autocrat into an Alpha) if the control direction was the same! Tigers, like Proctors are rich when pulled back. Mind you again I never had need to weaken the mixture, so well spotted.
As for the bounce....maybe the bungee's too tight & needs a bit of excercise!

David, looks as if you might need to apply a 'reversed' notation in your B4 Gmax before final release.
Keith

P.S. Just checked the Arrow for bounce & I thought it was very supple coping very well on take off at Rearsby & a heavy landing back on. Dave's/Leif's Rearsby is not exactly smooth.....K
Upside Down In Cloud.....
Last Edit: 4 years 11 months ago by Keith Paine. Reason: P.S. added
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Re: Backward mixture control on Austers 4 years 11 months ago #29815

  • Miggers
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Just call him Dave Moly,Bulky.

It's a lot easier.

Not noticed any bounce whilst taxying on mine(all of Dave's present Austers in my sim),
I use the AOP.9 the most,but I get a lovely Spitfire bounce on landing with any of 'em,
which Martin Pengelly(T6Flyer)and Keith assure me is quite correct.

As to the mixture,1/ I never move it apart from to idle cut off to stop the elastic
and back to full rich to start it again.

2/I thought back to front was correct with an Auster.

Makes you think when flying other types though.

Mark
CBF Alpha/Beta Test Pilot

CBF Chief Fighter Pilot

IL2 Messerschmitt 109 ace

Holder of the Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves,Swords and Diamonds.
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Re: Backward mixture control on Austers 4 years 11 months ago #29818

  • Molyned
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Thanks for the post 'Bulky' - delighted to read that you like our Auster offerings :) . Regarding the mixture control, this is how they operate here for me and others who have tested them -
J1 Autocrat - In, rich - Out, lean (as the pilots notes)
J2 Arrow - locked at rich
J5B Autocar - In, rich - Out, lean
J5K Aiglet Trainer In, lean - Out, rich ie reversed
J5R Alpine - In, lean - Out,rich, rich ie reversed
J5V Autocar Lycoming - In rich - Out, lean

These have all been modelled from the actual aircraft cockpit photos, notes and their pilots comments, so that's how they are in reality now. By modelling the various aircraft from real-world examples where possible, ensures that the details are correct even though they may no longer be as ex-works. Why there's a difference - who knows except to say that Auster had their own ways of doing things :) . I can make no assumptions beacuse each one is always different somewhere - that's why I like them !
Your J5F Aiglet Trainer (with the D.H. Gipsy Major) recollection fits with the J5K G-AMMS (above) which I had the pleasure of flying in a couple of months back :) :)
Ah ! the Auster bounce ! I get no bounce on hard runways with the models, only on rough surfaces like grass - again, verified from the real-world .
So, keep on flying them - some more yet to build before I complete the set :laugh:
Regards
Dave M(oly)
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Re: Backward mixture control on Austers 4 years 11 months ago #29819

  • Molyned
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Keith -
The B4 had a 180 h.p. Bombadier engine, hence, like the A.O.P.9 it had no need for a mixture knob, being automatic.
You're right about not flying above an altitude where a sane person can breathe easily - not much point in spending all that money on scenery to watch it as a blur below you :)
Cheers
Dave M(oly)
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Re: Backward mixture control on Austers 4 years 11 months ago #29824

  • Keith Paine
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And thats on a clear day! If its cloudy there is even less to see!
Keith
Upside Down In Cloud.....
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Re: Backward mixture control on Austers 4 years 11 months ago #29833

  • Molyned
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Especially with your nom de plume Keith :laugh:
Dave M(oly)
ps - does the'quick reply'work with you - doesn't for me :(
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Re: Backward mixture control on Austers 4 years 11 months ago #29834

  • LeifH
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Bulky - "the bounce" while taxxing that you describe is not the model but your computer mate

Its a frame rate problem

Also Dave and Brian will correct me but didnt we have a modified flight file for the Autocrat that addressed that?

Its in the library - just search of the word Auster

You know I sat and had a thunk about it, Dave IS correct -- at Luton Flying Club in the early sixties we had three Austers a half a dozen Cessna 150s for ab initio training -

one of the problem's students encountered was the fact that the mixture on the 150s was reverse to the Austers.


Leif
<<In the early morning rain, with a dollar in my hand>>
Last Edit: 4 years 11 months ago by LeifH.
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Re: Backward mixture control on Austers 4 years 11 months ago #29847

  • Keith Paine
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Try this for a quick reply.
Yes, my nom de plume could make it very tricky seeing anything!
Keith
Upside Down In Cloud.....
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Re: Backward mixture control on Austers 4 years 11 months ago #29856

  • Molyned
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Hm, your memory isn't fading yet Leif :)
Here's a shot of the works of an Alpha - showing the mixture control direction of operation.

Why have I got a shot of this on my drive ? :whistle:
Cheers
Dave M(oly)
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Re: Backward mixture control on Austers 4 years 11 months ago #29863

  • LeifH
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ooohhhhhhhhh do I feel the presence of G-AIGT in the force??

I will be a happy camper -- it was the first J1N I barfed in.....Doing stall turns in the 3/4 seat :) Interesting view that.


Leif
<<In the early morning rain, with a dollar in my hand>>
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Re: Backward mixture control on Austers 4 years 11 months ago #29869

Am reading a book at the moment about a chap that used to own a Jackaroo - he learnt to fly at Luton in the early 1960s on 'IGT. Lots of info on her and the Alpha within the pages. When get home (gusting up to 25kts here at Bodmin as I type this), I will let you more about the book.

Only think that I barfed in was a Maule Lunar Rocket, when I was a little lad. Not sure if I want to be reminded of that, but then again I had a bag to use and not my wellies!!

Martin
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Re: Backward mixture control on Austers 4 years 11 months ago #29871

  • LeifH
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Whats his name Martin?
see if I can recall him

Also IF he mentions the two little lads who used to make a killing in the Hangar selling tea and bikkies, cleaning cars and aeroplanes


Lets see early sixties instructors

Howard Brunt
John (QDM) Middleton
Phil jefferys


Leif
<<In the early morning rain, with a dollar in my hand>>
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Re: Backward mixture control on Austers 4 years 7 months ago #32206

And I thought I knew EVERYTHING about Austers! Seriously, though, that difference in mixture controls is very interesting. I sympathise with those students I think it would freak me out to check 'mixture fully rich' and find the engine won't start! The J2 I learned to fly on had a 'rich in' orientation but that might have been changed 'cos it was in Australia; and when my J5F came out here much of it had to be changed to comply with Ozzie regulations. Actually the thing with the J2 was that it didn't have flaps so if one was a little high on approach we had to sideslip in - very Biggles don't you know Algie!

Thanks for the advice about the 'bounce'. I do get a bit with other aircraft so I'm guessing that adjusting the framerates is the way to go.

I'm a little envious of Dave's ride in G-AAMS which is the model I use to emulate my J5F - British reg of which was G-AMTE and had, apparently been part of British Airways flying club and an Aerofilms aircraft, I believe.

And, hopefully, here's a picture of me and my J5F (if the attachment works) ...

Attachment VHWKY600.jpg not found

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Re: Backward mixture control on Austers 4 years 7 months ago #32207

And just a little postscript. The J2 I flew had a Lycoming engine which is why, possibly, it had a mixture control.
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