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TOPIC: Where do I find the Stirling and similar WW2 RAF

Where do I find the Stirling and similar WW2 RAF 3 years 7 months ago #36631

  • BOBC
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Hi, Just discovered this site whilst googling for Armstrong Whitworth Whitley. I have longed to see a flight sim do aircraft other than fighters, especially if they could undergo missions etc. I can at least find a Whitley in camouflage here, then I see a Stirling panel but no Stirling, Stirling in the search window only finds the instument panel ! I see a Pegasus engine sound file but no hampden. Where are the WW2 British bombers here ? Blenheim, Wellington, Manchester, Stirling, Hampden etc. Also what flight sim do I need and how do I add them in ? Are these aircraft open to editing for colour or even shape and what do I need ? Some look very simple colour wise. No weathering etc. Can I in fact create aircraft for the sim that these use ?
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Re: Where do I find the Stirling and similar WW2 RAF 3 years 7 months ago #36633

  • Rich
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BOBC, hi do you actualy have a Ms flight sim installed ???. If yes which sim ????

FSX ?

Fs9 ?

CBFS 2 ??

The all have differences even though they are all made by Microsoft, ie aircraft made for FSX will not work in anything else.

I am a no one here just trying to help but info is needed before suggestions and advice should be offered.
Rich R
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Re: Where do I find the Stirling and similar WW2 RAF 3 years 7 months ago #36635

  • Keith Paine
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If you have FS9/2004, then you will find a lot of aircraft on Ted Cooks website, Manchester, Hampden etc.
www.tedcook.btinternet.co.uk
Hope that helps.
Sometimes models designed for FS9 will work on FSX, but there might be some slight differences.
Keith
Upside Down In Cloud.....
Last Edit: 3 years 7 months ago by Keith Paine.
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Re: Where do I find the Stirling and similar WW2 RAF 3 years 7 months ago #36636

  • Rich
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Keith, I think we need to know what Flight sim BOBC is using it's no means clear that he even has one.

Yes some Fs 9 models will work ok in FSX many will not with duff props black glass and bits not showing. Fs 2000 and Fs 2002 may also be a problem.

FSX will be problematic too as for one thing FSX dedicated models cannot be used in Fs9 in any form, a FSX model made for acceleration gives a lot of problems if you try to use it in a non acceleration FSX as you well know, bits may be missing etc that can often be fixed by installing FSX service pack 2.

I would wait to get some positive info on what he has etc.
Rich R
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Re: Where do I find the Stirling and similar WW2 RAF 3 years 7 months ago #36637

  • BOBC
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Hi,
I am willing to buy whatever flight sim needed to fly these RAF bomber command aircraft.
I only have at the moment the Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator 3 and rarely ever fly it as I am into Battle of Britain and Bomber Command with period airfields, scenes and accuracy. MCFS3 didnt have such. Instrument panels and cockpits were incorrect for starters. Interacting with other aircraft for such types is also important though just to be able to fly them and capture realistic stills at day, dusk and dawn in different weather will do me for now ! I want to see these ideally in a period atmosphere and capture stills that are period looking. I will be willing to buy whatever is necessary to be able to fly a good realistic Stirling, Whitley, Hampden, Lancaster, Manchester, Halifax Mk 1 series 2, Blenheim. If I have to tweak the artwork to get them to that standard I would also like to be able to do that as well. See images below of the current standard of WW2. How many different 3D builders and skinners are there for such aircraft ?

Which flight sim do I need to buy to be able to fly these ? What do I need as plug ins etc ? Will I be able to see aircraft quality looking like my still images below ?

I am WinXP SP2 32bit 4GB ram and I also have WinXP pro 64bit which will access all 8Gb I have, Nvidia GeForce 9800GTX 256MB graphics card and Creative Labs Audigy SB Xfi audio.

I get the feeling that I shall be flying these in post war scenery and airfields though which strikes me as so odd that there isnt a WW2 environment for them. There was a sim called Target for Tonight but it never materialised. The stirling in that looked promising. I wonder if they will go into BoB Wing of Victory, doubt it ! Cliffs of Dover isnt open to outside coders so no joy there, they do have Wellingtons though, and Blenheims and maybe Hampdens. Engine sound though was rubbish with lawnmowers for merlins.

Cliffs of Dover sim has the most realistic images now, I like the exposed aluminium reflective qualities. Not sure if these bombers would be this good. I would like to be able to create skins that do this. The period airfields though are important to get the ambience right. Cockpits are also important, below some examples of what I mean.











BOBC
Last Edit: 3 years 7 months ago by BOBC. Reason: clarify that I am open to buying whatever it needs
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Re: Where do I find the Stirling and similar WW2 RAF 3 years 7 months ago #36638

  • Rich
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BOBC, CFS3 as far as I know is a odd ball, I do'nt have it and never had it, I am fairly confident that you will not find any thing here that will work for you, even Combat flight sim 2 models will not work on it.

In the main the flight sims used here are going back to the dark ages but still used by a few though not many is Flight sim 2002, More recent and still popular is Fs 2004 with lots of models and scenery, both Fs 2002 and Fs 2004 are not combat simulators so no bombing raids etc but fine for navigation etc.

The current Flight sim is FSX and comes in 2 forms Plain FSX and FSX gold with acceleration which gives the ability to operate from moving aircraft carriers, this time you can drop bombs for what its worth since you can not destroy anything, same with guns shoot but not shoot anything down.

Not sure what to advise around what you want as I said CFS3 is a odd ball, Sim Out House has a CFS 3 forum, may be worth checking there.

Rich
Rich R
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Re: Where do I find the Stirling and similar WW2 RAF 3 years 7 months ago #36639

  • BOBC
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Hi Rich,

I am not looking use CFS3 for them, as said, willing to consider anything that flies them and gives a realistic looking aircraft. Not looking to drop bombs or shoot, as without another to do so at, I see no point in that anyway. I am after realism in the shape and skins and lighting, and ideally a realistic airfield for taxiing and servicing shots.

Sounds like its a choice of FS2004 or FSX or FSXgold.

Which one would be best for my aims ?

Do they allow use of photoshop to improve or make new skins ?

Do they allow the creation of new aircraft models with CAD progs. I would use Rhino3D.

Can one in fact create a period airfield and add period buildings ?

Which is best for weather and lighting effects ?

Can I fly more than one as a formation ?

Which one is best for such ?

Can anyone do me a screenshot showing one of my mentioned aircraft looking really good ?

I had hoped by now with the advancement of Sims that to be able to see RAF Bomber command as we can see RAF Fighter Command in such, would be possible.

BOBC
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Re: Where do I find the Stirling and similar WW2 RAF 3 years 7 months ago #36641

  • Rich
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BOBC, personally I would go for one of the FSX versions they have more to offer in the graphics line I think, which version I will leave to you difference is obviously price to start, while FSX will give you moving carriers that you can catapult off and do arrested landings but if you intend only working from land bases then plain FSX should be ok for you.

Fs 2004 is a bit long in the tooth now and graphics not so good as FSX but it is still used by many and lots of addons available some of which work fine with FSX.

Not a lot in either of them that come up to CFS aircraft models standard as it is a niche sim that was soon abandoned by Microsoft many cursed it, practice for FSX I think which was also soon abandoned by Microsoft so for both of those sims anything new is done by the users, new planes and airports etc

I would mooch around some other forums and do some poking around to get a wider picture and more opinions.

Sorry getting late here as I am 8 hours ahead of UK here which is where I assume you are.

Should be on tomorrow afternoon some time. but look in some other forums there is a wealth of knowledge around Classic British Flight Sim I would recommend you may already know it.

Rich
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Re: Where do I find the Stirling and similar WW2 RAF 3 years 7 months ago #36642

  • Molyned
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'BOBC' I thought I'd chip in with my few answers (relevant to FS2004 & FSX) -
- Some aircraft are supplied with layered paint templates either for Photoshop or P.S.P.
- Creation of new models is indeed possible (I'm such a modeller).
- There are however only a few 3D-CAD programs for which the required Flightsim exporters have been written for and I don't think Rhino is one of them. I use GMax ( a cut down version of 3D-s Max), many use FSDS (specific for flightsim stuff).
- Period airfields and scenery objects can be made as you like.
- Although Flightsim only handles one aircraft at a time, it is possible to add other aircraft (A.I.) flying predetermined routes and fly along with them.
- follow this link for shots of a Payware Hampden flightsim.com/main/review/hampden.htm
-these two sites are essential reading for anyone wishing to build models.

www.freeflightdesign.org/
www.fsdeveloper.com/

HTH
Cheers
Dave M(oly)
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Re: Where do I find the Stirling and similar WW2 RAF 3 years 7 months ago #36646

  • Miggers
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Rich wrote:
BOBC, hi do you actualy have a Ms flight sim installed ???. If yes which sim ????

FSX ?

Fs9 ?

CBFS 2 ??

The all have differences even though they are all made by Microsoft, ie aircraft made for FSX will not work in anything else.

I am a no one here just trying to help but info is needed before suggestions and advice should be offered.

He's really kidding when he says he's no one on here!!!

BTW,that Spit 'pit is very nice,but I've never seen one with a wooden throttle and mixture handle.
Also the boost is rather high for the prop revs and the chassis(undercart) lever on the quadrant should be back at the idle position.
I'd say that quadrant is actually from a 22/24 series Spit,but the cockpit as a whole is supposed to be from a baby Merlin Spit,maybe a Mk I/II or Va,it's got the eight gun firing button.

For Fs9,PlaneDesign's Lanc is a cracker.

Do you want to learn to fly these things properly or do you want to simply "jump in and go"?
Learn to fly them properly and it opens up a vastly better experience of enjoyment for you.

Mark
CBF Alpha/Beta Test Pilot

CBF Chief Fighter Pilot

IL2 Messerschmitt 109 ace

Holder of the Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves,Swords and Diamonds.
Last Edit: 3 years 7 months ago by Miggers.
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Re: Where do I find the Stirling and similar WW2 RAF 3 years 7 months ago #36647

  • Keith Paine
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Although you seem to have quite a high spec 'puter system, you might find that FSX frame rates will be disappointing unless you reduce the picture & scenery quality. Because of that I prefer to use FS9, so although long in the tooth, it gives a much smoother ride.
I have W7 32 bit, 4Gb RAM, Nvidia 8600gts with I think 500Mbs memory & an AMD Althlon dual core 6000+ processor. I also have a RAID set up.
Like Dave Moly I use Gmax & my limited painting expertise is restricted to using PSP7.
HTH
Keith
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Re: Where do I find the Stirling and similar WW2 RAF 3 years 7 months ago #36648

  • BOBC
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FSX for better graphics but poor fps unless I dumb down the graphics, or FS9 smoother but lesser graphics,er um,bit of a tricky decision then.
Are both ok for WinXP ? DirectX 9 compatible ? I cant fly CoD as its DirectX10 and that doesnt run on WinXP.
I almost bought the virtavia hampden as graphics look fine for me but is there a free equivalent of equal quality ? If so any chance of a screenie ?

Likewise the Blenheim.

See that Stuka in my pics above, could both FS9 and FSX give that effect and the metal reflections, if only FSX then that decides again the choice.

Miggers.
Spit in CoD is full of errors, thats supposed to be a Mk1 pit but its a Mk2/V hybrid. Developers are unapproachable though. Not open to feedback and not interested in fixing errors. I was banging my head against a brick wall when pointing out what was wrong. The sim also flies a Mk2 looking spit, (rounded spinner) when one chooses Mk1a snf thus is mostly showing the BoB as flown with Mk2's !!! . Still doing so one year on. Throttle top correct but should be white. I had not even started to study the gauge readings, interesting observations. Wasted on the majority of those that fly the sim though. They now have a flying Mk1 to compare it to but would say sim right and Mk1 restoration wrong.

Yes I wouldnt mind the real approach to flying these.

Molyned
- Period airfields and scenery objects can be made as you like.
oooh :woohoo: has anyone done anything along these lines then ? What is available and is it FSX or FS9, that may decide the choice for me.

BOBC
Last Edit: 3 years 7 months ago by BOBC.
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Re: Where do I find the Stirling and similar WW2 RAF 3 years 7 months ago #36650

  • Molyned
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BOB -
Both FS2004 and FSX will run fine under Windows XP.
Regarding the Stuka, that's down mainly to very skilled painting on a fine model. Both FS2004 and FSX can reproduce 'shine' and reflections but FSX is superior in that department allowing much more control of the effects.
Cheers
Dave M(oly)
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Re: Where do I find the Stirling and similar WW2 RAF 3 years 6 months ago #36653

  • Miggers
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The airworthy Mk 1's you refer to are Al Deere's and Peter Cazenove's.
Both have been restored as sympathetically as possible using as many
original components as could be salvaged and restored.

As to flying fighters in a correct manner,I spoke to as many
Spit pilots as possible,both old and new,about the handling
traits and the many nuances that they have.

I downloaded a Tiger Moth and Harvard,learned to fly those correctly,
then moved onto fighters.
Mark and Ray Hanna were both great to watch fly MH434 and
PL965.
John Romane is a great exponent on a Griffon Spit,and any of
the BBMF fighter pilots are also good to chat to about their steeds.

I prefer the 60/70 series Merlin engined or Griffon Spits to the "baby"
earlier aircraft.

You've got some of the very best chaps in the buisness(Dave Moly,Keith and Rich)
to advise you on what's what with whichever sim you choose to go for and on
what they will and won't do.
Stick with us and we'll get you pointed in the right direction.

Mark
CBF Alpha/Beta Test Pilot

CBF Chief Fighter Pilot

IL2 Messerschmitt 109 ace

Holder of the Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves,Swords and Diamonds.
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